Скандал дэма накрылась

[Super-FLANKER]

August 29, 2003: Lock On : Modern Air Combat Demo Delayed


The interactive demo for Lock On has been completed and will be made available online in October of 2003. The demo will allow players to try their hand at flying the A-10A "Warthog" and the MiG-29A "Fulcrum." In addition to being available on the official Lock On website and several mirrors, it will also be available in December issues of several popular magazines like Computer Gaming Magazine, Computer Gaming World, and PC Gamer.
While we very first considered releasing the Lock On demo earlier, given the postponement of the game's release, it has been decided it would be best to release the demo in October to ensure a better support to the project

www.lo-mac.com

прошу всеx проголосовать вот тут

http://www.petitiononline.com/lomac/petition.html

может есть надежда...

[NeverhoOd]

Ты по русски пиши!
Я то англ. знаю, но форум то русский и люди тут не все по англ. читать умеют!

[chp]

Ну так переведи. По русски в двух других тредах написано.

As the Developer of Lock On, we at The Fighter Collection / Eagle Dynamics are tasked with creating the product while our Publisher Ubi Soft handles, among other things, the PR and Marketing responsibilities. Eagle Dynamics has submitted what we believe is the final version of the Demo to Ubi Soft. Despite a firm belief by Matt and me that the Demo would indeed be released for download this week, as well as being provided to various game magazines for inclusion on their CDs, a decision has been made by Ubi Soft management to wait on releasing the Demo online.

One of the questions you might be asking is why all the silence for the past few days on the forum by Matt and myself. Simple: The decision to postpone the release of the demo was being discussed by Ubi Soft management. I was asked to refrain from posting further reports. Ubi Soft will now be making any future announcements concerning the demo or release dates. There was nothing Matt or I could say during the past few days as we did not know what the final decision was going to be until management made their final decision. It was out of our hands. This decision involved managers in several Ubi Soft offices in several countries. Add to the mix the fact that Ubi Soft e-mail servers were down for days because of a virus attack and you can begin to see that this process took some time to reach a final decision.

My participation here on the forums has been to represent TFC/ED and answer your questions about Lock On and be a liaison to the community regarding the status of the development of the product. I’ve always been careful not to make promises and I try to use words and phrases like “no promises,” “planned,” “scheduled” and “when it’s ready” as I understand how expectations are created and build online. I am also aware and experienced in how often and easily they can be dashed. It is for contingencies such as this one that I do not like to give dates or make promises about things for which I do not have the ultimate decision making authority. I can only be so careful when giving the community status and news. Regardless of my best intentions, some of you will feel that we let you down. That was certainly never anybody’s intention. Nobody wants the product or the Demo finished and out to the public more than we do.

It is often a two-edged sword. Many of you want information and when we give it to you, even if it is wrapped in disclaimers and conditions, some of you feel we misled you and broke a promise when something changes. From my point-of-view, it is a no-win scenario. The alternative is to just say nothing which, for me, seems more difficult and restrictive than using good sense, being professional, and ensuring that I state things are subject to change.. Certainly all of you can see now why we are leery of providing exact dates when things are always changing due to development contingencies or by decisions and variables that are out of our control.

None of this matters to any of you when, at the end of the day, you are still disappointed because something you believed in and counted on, for which you had been told was likely to happen, doesn’t actually happen as planned. No matter how carefully I worded things, you expected the demo this week and now it is not going to happen. I share your pain because my expectations have not been met either. While this decision wasn’t mine, that doesn’t make things any easier for Matt, me, or any of you.

All of you have my personal apologies for the disappointment you are feeling, especially since my regular demo status reporting, of what I believed to be the actual demo release plans, created expectations that have now been dashed. I feel terrible about it and wish there was something I could do about it.

In the future I will no longer participate in official announcements. I’ve worked very hard to answer your questions about Lock On and provide information to the community. I am happy to continue to provide information and answer questions about Lock On specifically from a content and development prospective, but as the disclaimer in my signature block indicates, I do not speak for the Publisher. I never want to be placed in this situation again. Therefore, all the official announcements on this forum will be coming directly from Ubi Soft. In hindsight it was a big mistake for me to be involved in the announcement of the demo release when I never had final control of the demo’s release. I was working closely with Matt we both thought we were doing the right thing.

This is an unfortunate situation and I wish I could say or do something to make all of you feel better, but I can’t. I wish I was able to give you all a copy of the demo right now, but I can’t. I can understand why you are all disappointed and why some of you are angry. I have feelings about this situation as well, but I am going to keep them to myself as it would be inappropriate for me to do otherwise. This is a decision that was made at a higher level than Matt Wagner at Ubi Soft, so Matt has no other choice in this matter. He needs your support not more difficulties. Matt is also in a no-win situation regarding this demo release matter. I’m sure he is as disappointed as anyone, but we all have to remain professional and carry on. I choose to remain focused and dedicated to getting the product finished and I am confident that this is also Matt’s priority.

Therefore, I recommend that if you have something to say about all of this, please ensure that you express your feelings in a mature and reasonable fashion. Being emotional and going on the attack will serve no useful purpose and only make more work for the Moderators. Instead, make your feelings known in a calm and reasoned manner. If you decide to provide feedback to Ubi Soft then please remember that flames, insults, and poor manners are not going to make any of this any better or get you the demo any sooner. Express your disappointment if you must, but let’s keep it in one thread, keep it clean, and keep it mature and measured. A flame war would be counter-productive.

While you might not see or appreciate this, the good news is that Ubi Soft appears to be committed to a strong launch of Lock On. Their decision to coordinate the demo release with the major media outlets and magazines is good news in the long run. In the short run it is disappointing for all of the active forum members who have expressed your interest and support for this product and expected a demo this week. My understanding is that this decision was made by Ubi Soft as a means of coordinating the launch of the demo to coincide with its availability on magazine CDs and in promotional efforts by Ubi Soft and the Media. I have been told that when the final product is finished Ubi Soft has a promotional and marketing plan that they are putting in place to make this a big international launch with Press coverage and promotional efforts. I spoke to a Marketing Manager at Ubi Soft that I have known and worked with in the industry for over ten years. She assures me that the commitment is there to launch Lock On in a big way and that the retailers are very interested in this title. Let’s not let this incident cause the momentum to slip for Lock On. If Lock On is a success then there is a much better chance for this genre of products to expand and thrive.

Respectfully,
Carl

[Glass Eagle]

За что голосовать-то? И какая надежда? Октябрь и так уж скоро.

[NeverhoOd]

дорогой зануда-в-заднице chp ! )

Когда я писал то сообщение - это была единственная тема на тему демы.

во вторых - не хер такими темами загрязнять раздел!

[Olgerd]

дорогой NeverhoOd!

Не следует употреблять подобные эпитеты к модераторам нашего форума!
Информации в этом разделе не так много, как например в разделе посвященному Ил-2, а поскольку это сообщение "из первых рук" его публикация вполне здесь уместна.

[ALF]

Originally posted by NeverhoOd
дорогой зануда-в-заднице chp ! )

Советую заглянуть с начало сюда, а затем сюда.

[chp]

тов. мануальный проктолог,

как уже заметил Olgerd, подобные "эпитеты" и прочие переходы на личности (безотносительно адресата) не просто являются плохим тоном но и могут привести к более серьезным послетствиям. а тк это уже второй "опус" за последнее время, следует более внимательно следить за словами и их источником.

во-первых (или ещё раз) - до появления этого треда вообще (а не каких либо ответов) уже были два треда с инфой и на аглицком и на русском языке.

во-вторых, что значит "во вторых - не хер такими темами загрязнять раздел!"? вопрос ко мне или к своему собтвенному первому ответу в этом треде? и какими темемаи должен быть забит этот раздел, если не разьяснениями так ожидаемой демы?

[chp]

Matt is the Producer, a Ubi Soft Employee and my contact at Ubi, the person I interact with concerning Lock On matters. I work for TFC/ED, the developer.

Ubi Soft has a deadline in which to get the demo to various magazines in order for the demo to appear on the CDs included with the mags. This deadline is, I believe, early next week.

For the past few weeks we have all been working hard to get the demo ready to meet this deadline. Matt was working with members of the marketing and technical staff to get everything in place. Things like mirror sites and coordination with the online staff to get the files up on the FTP servers took place.

Matt was operating with the understanding that once he approved the final demo version it would be released for online distribution and also sent to the magazines.

Last week Matt called me and told me that he was convinced that the version of the demo in testing at the time, Demo Beta 06, would be
"The One". We had wanted to make some changes to the scenarios and fix a few minor things, but Matt was concerned about the upcoming deadline and wanted to be finished.

About a week and a half prior, Matt, Igor and I had just finished an evaluation of the bug database and the progress being made in the past few weeks. We determined that our chance of making our scheduled code release date at the end of August was no longer possible. This information was passed up the chain at Ubi Soft and new dates for the final version were being decided. Things like this take days in a large company to finalize. Add to it that almost all of Europe was on holiday in August and you can see that new date decision took over a week to make at Ubi.

It turns out that the Team implemented some of Matt's changes and created Demo 07 last weekend. This version had a major showstopper bug in it and while we waited for Ubi to finalize their decision, Demo 08 was created to fix the showstopper bug. Demo 08 was submitted to Ubi on late Thursday night, Moscow time. Demo 08 is the release candidate for the Demo.

So, in addition to the Demo plans, Matt and I also discussed how we would announce the new release dates. We both agreed that it might be best to have one of us announce the new dates and one of us announce the Demo status. It was decided that he would do the new date announcement and I would announce the Demo and follow up with regular status reports on the development progress of the Demo.

At that moment we were operating on a plan, not an assumption, to release the Demo the next week. No decision had been made by anyone at Ubi Soft, to Matt's knowledge or understanding, to change the plan.

We made the announcements. In retrospect, this is where I made a big mistake. In my desire to get the information out to an anxious and vocal crowd I allowed myself to be put in a position where factors beyond my control could change and invalidate my good intentions. I should never have made an announcement of something that Ubi Soft could change. Of course at the time, Ubi Soft, to me, was my colleague and friend Matt Wagner. He was calling the shots on things and was also operating on the same plan.

After our announcements were made, a day or so later, Matt attended a meeting with some Marketing folks which included more senior people than who Matt had been working with earlier to coordinate distribution and release of the Demo. It occurred to these managers that it might be better to wait on the Demo release to better place it with the magazines and get better Press coverage for the title. They were now concerned that because a new release date had just been established, it made more sense to have the Demo released online near the same timeframe as it would appear on the magazine CDs in October. They told Matt that they wanted to discuss this with the Marketing managers in Europe and would make a final decision.

Matt informed me of this "development" and I became VERY concerned because I knew the turmoil that this would create, especially after we had JUST announced the Demo would be released online in a week. Sure we put in disclaimer and qualifiers, but people had the reasonable expectation that the Demo would indeed be released in a week.

I phoned several of the managers at Ubi Soft that were in the process of making the final decisions. I stressed the potential backlash and impact on the forum members who are the dedicated fans of the product. I also point out to them the no-win situation that Matt and I were facing. I made several alternate recommendations. They said that they would discuss it all with their counterparts in Paris and would have a final decision shortly. They also asked me and told Matt that we should refrain from making any further announcements regarding the release of the Demo. That explains my three days of online silence on the forum.

It took almost a week for Ubi to make the final decision. I received a final phone call on early Friday morning informing me that the delay until October was the decision and it would be announced. I wrote my "Grenade" response and battened down the hatches.

On Friday morning around 10:00AM the bomb was dropped.

Lesson learned for me? NEVER participate in an announcement about something beyond your control. Now that lesson seems simple, but real life is more complicated. At the time when I made the announcement about the Demo I had no reason to doubt what Matt was telling me. Matt had no reason to doubt that the plan would be followed. Had either of us suspected that someone else higher than Matt would change the plan neither of us would have put ourselves into this situation.

Imagine how we both feel when people, who are understandably upset and disappointed, accuse us of being liars and that we knowingly broke a promise. My reputation and my credibility with some people have now been sullied. This is personally very upsetting for me and Matt is equally distressed. As a result of this affair I know that I will now be more restrictive of what I say online. This is unfortunate as I prefer to be open with the community about the status of our projects. But, I am not going to put up with anything like this ever again. All of this has been totally unfair, but life is unfair. This is a business decision. One that I actually think makes sense with regard to having the biggest impact in the market for the product. I do disagree with HOW this decision was made and the timing.

All of this is the truth, and is, frankly, more information than anyone really has a right to know.

If you want to still call me a liar and question my intentions and integrity then there is nothing I can say or do to change your mind so believe what you must. I'd be curious to see how some of the people crying the most about this situation would have handled this if they were in my shoes at the time.

Carl

[Dmut]

для тех, кто не читает по английском бегло:
Carl извеняется за то, что ошибочно анонсировал релиз демки в августе и впредь зарекается делать какие-либо заявления насчет вещей, которые от него не зависят. так же обьясняет, что он человек маленький, а релиз демки перенесли "шишки" из маркетингового отдела Ubi.

[=LAF=Jakudza]

Ой, ой! Можно подумать он ничего не знал Такая информация не дается без ведома руководителей высшего звена. Все это лажа. Отмазки. Дело явно в другом, только в чем? :confused:

[KACATKA]

если бы ЛОКОН должны были выпустить в декабре, то дему выпустили бы сейчас.

ну а поскольку в декабре, видимо, его не выпустят, то дему решили сейчас не выпускать.. чтоб до февраля не забыли, что такое ЛОКОН...

имхо конечно же =)

[Valery]

Originally posted by KACATKA
если бы ЛОКОН должны были выпустить в декабре, то дему выпустили бы сейчас.

ну а поскольку в декабре, видимо, его не выпустят, то дему решили сейчас не выпускать.. чтоб до февраля не забыли, что такое ЛОКОН...

имхо конечно же =)

Демо-версия вполне работоспособна, и ее можно было бы выложить прямо сейчас. А в октябре, если понадобится, выпустить еще одну - успеху симулятора это не повредило бы. Думаю, что задержка демы - это действительно досадное бюрократическое недоразумение, которого Карл не ожидал. А вот обещать, IMHO, с его стороны неосмотрительно, раз окончательное решение принимает кто-то другой.

[KACATKA]

Ну, как он сказал, этот случай его многому научил...

ждемс

[NeverhoOd]

Товарищи!

Извините, я наверно превысил свои уполномочия простого участника форума, и захотел чтобы у нас не было ТАКИХ тем.
И дема тут не причемс! я имел ввиду всего лишь не русско язычность!
С самого начала я выразился и закончил свой монолог. (который самый верхний)

Кстати заметьте, на момент моего ответа (который самый верхний)- ни одной темы про демы не было, кроме этой.

Единственной своей ошибкой считаю публичное оскорбление Сhp. Надо было ему в приват написать.

Всё! ни с кем конфликтом иметь не хочу! ) )

[chp]

Единственной своей ошибкой считаю публичное оскорбление Сhp. Надо было ему в приват написать.

Ну если приватное оскорбление является нормой, почему бы и нет.

Всё! ни с кем конфликтом иметь не хочу! ) )

Это не нужно (бесполезно и смешно) обсуждать, нужно просто этого не делать.

Кстати заметьте, на момент моего ответа (который самый верхний)- ни одной темы про демы не было, кроме этой.

С добрым утром или для прапорщиков и офицеров советской армии.. на пальцах:
(в левом нижнем углу каждого постинга есть дата)

29-08-2003 20:06 первый тред (с инфо на русском)

29-08-2003 22:29 второй тред

29-08-2003 23:37 этот тред

30-08-2003 00:14 твой ответ в нем

31-08-2003 00:32 первое утверждение что это был единственный тред

01-09-2003 23:02 продолжение утверждения что это был единственный тред

Извините, я наверно превысил свои уполномочия простого участника форума, и захотел чтобы у нас не было ТАКИХ тем.
И дема тут не причемс! я имел ввиду всего лишь не русско язычность!
С самого начала я выразился и закончил свой монолог. (который самый верхний)

Спасибо, теперь немного понятнее (тк в оригинале упоминается "тред", а не "сообщение" или его содержание).
(У)полномочий у простого участника нет, хотеть что либо (в режиме требования вообще, и от конкретного участника в частности) тоже не есть демократично. Хотя просьба давать хотябы краткий перевод была бы действительно уместной и довольно безобидной.
Ну и за инфу о том когда ты находишься в режиме монолога тоже благодарствуем.

[KACATKA]

с английским языком давно решили "проблему"
его использование на этом форуме не запрещено.

[chp]

Но давать краткий перевод / описание / резюме рекомендовать всеже можно..

Например ed2k://|file|Lomac.Demo.Leaked.zip|119122915|28F4B22DE03E3AF90F2F51D9EB7BE88A|/ в переводе означает: "товарищи осло-воды не оценили столь грамотный маркетинговый шаг ЮбиСофта по придержанию демки"

PS Ни на какие вопросы относительно вышеуказанного отвечать не буду. Демки у меня нет!

[Dmut]

5 балов chp
товарищи ословоды, не волнуйтесь, то была шутка.

PS: признаюсь, сразу же рванул к мулу.

[Rackshas]

А никто случайно не разжился демкой с МАКСа?

[Акулыч]

И хтобь ее там раздавал, а????

[NeverhoOd]

Rackshas

так тыж видел, всё что было - два компа с бетками лока левее места проведения чампа.

Никаких демок.

[Jameson]

Вообще, поисковик Мула ничего такого не нашел, но я поставил в закачку на всякий пожарный. Вдруг пойдет.
Но пока глухо.

Originally posted by chp
Но давать краткий перевод / описание / резюме рекомендовать всеже можно..

Например ed2k://|file|Lomac.Demo.Leaked.zip|119122915|28F4B22DE03E3AF90F2F51D9EB7BE88A|/ в переводе означает: "товарищи осло-воды не оценили столь грамотный маркетинговый шаг ЮбиСофта по придержанию демки"

PS Ни на какие вопросы относительно вышеуказанного отвечать не буду. Демки у меня нет!

[Rackshas]

Originally posted by NeverhoOd
Rackshas

так тыж видел, всё что было - два компа с бетками лока левее места проведения чампа.

Никаких демок.

Про то и вопрос, кто-нить ету бетку случаем не с.... , не позаимствовал у организаторов?

[caliostro]

Самое смешное, что по приведенной едонковской ссылке что-то есть. Осталось узнать что...