NewView - новый обзор в Ил-2

[wdq4587]

Hello Hurks

It is possible. NV can read only 6 axis. You can check all of this on Config/Joystic tab. Select Device # for Main devoce and look at the bottom panel. X,Y,Z,R,U,V values should changed if you change axis position and Device ID is correct. If axis you need do not working then it is not supported on NV.

X-36 only has 6 axis. The problem is the U vlalues in NV config tan never change. Others can change if you move the joystick. I also tested last night, using NV3.0 is same result. I want know your program use number or name to read axis values?

I don't installed driver for X-36 before in W2K. It's use microsoft default HID driver. Last night I installed basic driver of Saitek SD3.2. Still same result in NV.

Could you change Main and Additional joysticks? Send me INI file you using and describe correct ID for X-36 and Logitech joys.

That need I test it after I go home. But I guess that not INI file related. What I forgot last night is change joystick ID in W2K control panel to see the result.

NV has issue with analog zoom controlled by Additional joystick. I fix this on latest version.

I see.

About memry pointer problem. Exactly no Pointer problem is specified to C programmer style I use Delphi and Objects. I have no memory problems in general Do you familiar with DelhiX components for Builder or familiar with DirectInput?

I am not sure, you don't see pointer that do not mean there are no pointer, although I have used Delphi 10 years ago. I fell Turbo pascal and C++ is about same, what I changed to C++ Builder is because I do not like pascal syntax.

I am not familiar with DelhiX components or DirectInput. I do have some interesting on game programming but I really do not have time to try it.

No, this is not requared TIR HW. This used TIR interface for output zoom value to game. Z axis filled up with zoom value. Some games used this interface for contol zoom or move thru Z axis. For example "LockOn" or "GT Legends". FB do not used this interface. Only Key Generation output can be used for FB game.

I see. Thanks for explain!

SnapView is one more experimental kind of view on NV. It is like native Snap View on FB but this more flexible. For example this can track zoom position and correct change angle according zoom.

I see. I'll try it.

No. FB accept only values divide by 5. And I do not like this interface on NV. This is very FB specific and not comfortable.

If they can allow any number, that should be great. I don't understand why they restrict FOV values numbers in DeviceLink interface. I mean only limited kind FOVs, why not a set(gov) instead so many call. I guess it's not difficult to support any FOV (in range) in graphics engine.

I do not understood. Sorry. Please describe more detailed and sendINI file.

I should say it simple. What I mean is if I try use KG4 but no KG1 KG2 KG3 assigned first, it will not work in NV3.6 (later version I have not tested).

Thanks for your reply!

[Hruks]

X-36 only has 6 axis. The problem is the U vlalues in NV config tan never change. Others can change if you move the joystick. I also tested last night, using NV3.0 is same result. I want know your program use number or name to read axis values?

My program used number for adress axis.
I have X52 and all 6 axes works fine. But I can not read 7th axis.
I think I can not help you.

That need I test it after I go home. But I guess that not INI file related. What I forgot last night is change joystick ID in W2K control panel to see the result.

No. I mean change ID in Config program. Device #.

I am not sure, you don't see pointer that do not mean there are no pointer, although I have used Delphi 10 years ago. I fell Turbo pascal and C++ is about same, what I changed to C++ Builder is because I do not like pascal syntax.

I do not like pascal syntax too But I do not agree - Turbo pascal and Delphi is different. I use anther style of programming. This is not similar to Turbo pascal or general C++. Ok, forget it .

If they can allow any number, that should be great. I don't understand why they restrict FOV values numbers in DeviceLink interface. I mean only limited kind FOVs, why not a set(gov) instead so many call. I guess it's not difficult to support any FOV (in range) in graphics engine.

You should adress this question to FB developers

I should say it simple. What I mean is if I try use KG4 but no KG1 KG2 KG3 assigned first, it will not work in NV3.6 (later version I have not tested).

This is not clear for me. Just send me INI file and describe your settings.
For example:
I try to use only one generator number 4.
Settings:
1. go to Butons/Assignments/Button Generator/4.KeyGenerator. Detect. Press Joystick Key 5. Press button "Save to INI file".
2. go to Butons/Button Generator/Generator Num -> 4. Scan Code for first. Press Key 'X', Scan code for second. Press Key 'Y'. Press "Save to INI file". Setting next: Generator two pres is xxx, etc.
3. Launch FB. Set 'X' key to increase FOV, Set 'Y' key to decrease FOV.
4. Start new flight.
5. Press Joy Key 5. FOV increased. Unpress Joy Key 5. FOV decreased.

[wdq4587]

My program used number for adress axis.
I have X52 and all 6 axes works fine. But I can not read 7th axis.
I think I can not help you.

It's strange. Is there are any way to let me know the program read failure or read wrong values? And why -16000 to 16000? And why at first it's -16000 for last 3 axis until joystick axis move.

This my X-36 NO.5 axis works ok in W2K control panel, DXTweak2, IL2 serires. I'll test more game to see does it work. Does your program use different method to read axis values?

No. I mean change ID in Config program. Device #.

I have already done. So I know other 5 axis can be read in Newview. What I should do is change X-36 joystick ID from 1 to 0 in W2K control panel to test.

I do not like pascal syntax too But I do not agree - Turbo pascal and Delphi is different. I use anther style of programming. This is not similar to Turbo pascal or general C++. Ok, forget it .

OK

This is not clear for me. Just send me INI file and describe your settings.
For example:
I try to use only one generator number 4.
Settings:
1. go to Butons/Assignments/Button Generator/4.KeyGenerator. Detect. Press Joystick Key 5. Press button "Save to INI file".
2. go to Butons/Button Generator/Generator Num -> 4. Scan Code for first. Press Key 'X', Scan code for second. Press Key 'Y'. Press "Save to INI file". Setting next: Generator two pres is xxx, etc.
3. Launch FB. Set 'X' key to increase FOV, Set 'Y' key to decrease FOV.
4. Start new flight.
5. Press Joy Key 5. FOV increased. Unpress Joy Key 5. FOV decreased.

Since you take seriously on this little problem. I will do more test after I go home. What I think before is may be your program if don't found KG1 is assigned (with a specify button or keyboard), it will not check KG2 KG3 and more. It seems not now.

[Hruks]

It's strange. Is there are any way to let me know the program read failure or read wrong values? And why -16000 to 16000? And why at first it's -16000 for last 3 axis until joystick axis move.

-16000 to 16000 because it is usual for me It is used only on Config.
I do not know why if you do not move Joy the values do not changed. It is strange. If I start Config and do not touch Joy or change ID to virtual Joy - all axis have 0.

This my X-36 NO.5 axis works ok in W2K control panel, DXTweak2, IL2 serires. I'll test more game to see does it work. Does your program use different method to read axis values?

I have no idea for this. I use fixed component mentioned before and this component used DX5 interface. This worked on many joys before.

I have already done. So I know other 5 axis can be read in Newview. What I should do is change X-36 joystick ID from 1 to 0 in W2K control panel to test.

How about another joystick? I remember you have this.

Since you take seriously on this little problem. I will do more test after I go home. What I think before is may be your program if don't found KG1 is assigned (with a specify button or keyboard), it will not check KG2 KG3 and more. It seems not now.

All 50 generators worked independly. Only one exlude - if one have 2 button kombination for activate then no other will work. But this is constrain for all NV functions.

[wdq4587]

-16000 to 16000 because it is usual for me It is used only on Config.
I do not know why if you do not move Joy the values do not changed. It is strange. If I start Config and do not touch Joy or change ID to virtual Joy - all axis have 0.

I have no idea for this. I use fixed component mentioned before and this component used DX5 interface. This worked on many joys before.

After I change ID in NV config tab form 0 to 1, R U V axis values is -16000, x y z is 0 (may be z is other value). After I move the joy axis, Z R and V can change from values between -16000 to 16000. I'll do more test on it after I go home. May be I set R and V axis position to -16000 before I change ID. But V should be 0 for I perfer put it in the middle position.

Please tell me the Delphi component name, may be some old components have errors. (I have seen that before). For that time the author may be do not have condition to test 2 joysticks in one PC and the 6 axis joystick have the secondary ID.

It's difficult to me to learn VC. It's too complex. So I still only use C++ Builder. But I had to say direct access the API really have some advantage.....

How about another joystick? I remember you have this.

Wingman Force is a old joystick, do not have rudder, only have 3 analog axis. All works well. It's a great force feedback joystick.

All 50 generators worked independly. Only one exlude - if one have 2 button kombination for activate then no other will work. But this is constrain for all NV functions.

I see.

Thanks for your reply!

[wdq4587]

Thank god! Your site's ISP starnet DNS server (ns7.starnet.ru) works again after more than 36 hours stop resolve. sukhoi.ru domain should config 2 right DNS servers to avoid such things. ns.sukhoi.ru not works at all.

Hello Hruks

I think I found what's the problem.

First I need say my memoy is worse. These axis which can be read do not have -16000 at first while running Newview. Only the axis can not be read like last 3 axis of Wingman Force, and No.5 axis of X-36 have -16000. So I guess -16000 most probably mean it can not be read or read empty. (like NULL in database or -1 for some program). I try change X-36 ID to 1 (first) in control panel and turn off Wingman Force. Nothing difference.

Then I try run more games to check the X-36 axis. Warbirds 3 and Mig Alley can run it no problem. And just by trying this, I first time found the way let 2 joysticks works together in Mig Alley. Mig Alley is my favorite game, but padlock problem always let me fell annoying.

Then I found a little utility joystimm.exe joystimm.zip packaged in a game called Racer. After running it, I found some interesting things. Please look the graphics. This Controller Peeker v2.1 show 8 axis in panel although there are only 6 available. 2 axis were gray.



Different games have different names call these axis:
(Control Panel name is the native name provided by the manufacturer)

NO  "Control Panel"   "Controller Peeker"   IL2
1   X Axis              XAxis                   XAxis
2   YAxis               YAxis                   YAxis
3   Throttle        "Slider 0"            "U Slider"
4   Rudder          "Z Rotation"          "Z Rotation"
5   Rotary1         "Slider 1"            "V slider"
6   Rotary2         "X Rotation"          "X Rotation"

I remember in setup interface, Mig alley and Warbirds 3 (and DXTweak2) use same name as W2K control panel name. But the order is interesting:

X
Y
Rotary2
Rudder
Throttle
Rotary1

Compare to Controller Peeker display

X Axis
Y Axis
Z Axis
X Rotation = Rotary2 of X-36 for it rotate around the X axis (forward direction)
Y Rotation
Z Rotation = Rudder for all rudder rotate around the Z axis (up direction)
Slider 0 = Throttle
Slider 1

You should found they use same sequence although different name, and there are 2 axis absence. I also notice the Wingman Force "Z axis" (native name) in Controller Peeker called Slide 0 (=Throttle). What I think is in DX5 or older DX version, there are 8 predefined axis names and 8 fixed number ID as showen in Controller Peeker interface. Your program or the Delphi component use a order X=1 Y=2 Z=7 R=6 U=? V=4 to read them. I think U=5 not 3 (since it's difficult to move in Z axis in 3D space for a joystick), of course not 8. So this "Rotary1" axis in X-36 will not be read by Newview any more. It's not my joystick only problem. I think all X-36 should have same result.

Then about that KG button problem. I have tested, the 37C version also have same problem. I attach the ini files for you to check. Il2-Sturmovik Forgotten Battles_1.zip

[andreaogeno]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFTRs...rch=6dof%20il2

Have u seen????

Hruks...can you make something for realize this?

[wdq4587]

Hello Hruks

I have do more search and found these predefined constants in dinput.h:

　　DIJOFS_BUTTON0 to DIJOFS_BUTTON31
　　DIJOFS_BUTTON(n)
　　DIJOFS_POV(n)

　　DIJOFS_X
　　DIJOFS_Y
　　DIJOFS_Z
　　DIJOFS_RX
　　DIJOFS_RY
　　DIFOFS_RZ
　　DIJOFS_SLIDER(n)

http://www.koders.com/cpp/fid033F85F...5D6706F69.aspx

In this DX8 version of dinput.h, defined 32 (or extended 128) buttons, 4 POVs and only 2 Sliders. Although it seems the API will allow more Sliders and more POVs and buttons in future version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFTRs...rch=6dof%20il2

Wa! It's amazing!

[Мотылёк]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFTRs...rch=6dof%20il2

А я в какой-то из соседних веток читал, что такое невозможно в силу ограничений движка.:old:
Выходит, возможно?:confused:
Или это BoB?

[Hruks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFTRs...rch=6dof%20il2

Have u seen????

Hruks...can you make something for realize this?

In case if FB will support this I will rty to support this too.
But now this is unsupported on FB.

[andreaogeno]

In case if FB will support this I will rty to support this too.
But now this is unsupported on FB.

...Considered your recent "Analog Zoom" in NV37, I hope your search for an emulation of 6dof will be possible, for BOB and even for FB+PF.
thx Hruks

[Pooh]

Господа, у меня следующая проблема: пользуюсь версией 3.5, спустя некоторое время стал появляться такой глюк - если некоторое время смотреть в сторону (~ 2 сек), а потом нажать на кнопку джойстика (Х-52), назначенную на "Смотреть вперёд" (или что-то подобное), то взгляд моментально возвращается вперёд, но при этом включается режим "Прильнуть к прицелу". Периодически "Прильнуть..." включается и при простом повороте "головы". Для управления пользуюсь основной хаткой Х-52, устанвливал программу в соответствии с инструкцией (стирал инфу из разделов в файле настроек, нажимал в нужном порядке кнопочки в самой программе...). Какое-то время работало как часы, а потом вдруг... Причём это уже второй раз, когда спустя несколько дней после установки начинает самопроизвольно включаться "Прильнуть...".

[Oleg_Tr]

...начинает самопроизвольно включаться...

Вообще то у меня никогда и ничто самопроизольно не включается. Загляни, может у тебя в генераторах чтото забито, или в настройках джоя.

[Pooh]

Вообще то у меня никогда и ничто самопроизольно не включается. Загляни, может у тебя в генераторах чтото забито, или в настройках джоя.

Заглядывал, ничего не нашёл подозрительного... Такое было и с предыдущим джоем, логитековским.

[VadNik]

Согласен учавствовать. Такой же вопрос. Куда...?

[wdq4587]

Hello Hruks

I am still waiting for your answers. Please let Newview support 8 axis.

If you like short name, you may use X Y Z RX RY RZ S0 S1.

If you don't hate long name, you may use

X Axis
Y Axis
Z Axis
X Rotation
Y Rotation
Z Rotation (Rudder)
Slider 0 (Throttle)
Slider 1

Of course the best way is read the joystick axis names and use it in pulldown list.

I also wish your Newview can support 6DOF now. Now I can use Analog Zoom in Mig Alley by using TrackIr interface. It's excellent! You may map it to axis or move by press button. I think it's not difficult for you since all functions exist in Newview already.

[Hruks]

Hello Hruks

I am still waiting for your answers. Please let Newview support 8 axis.

Sorry, I have not resources for this rework. I do not familiar with DX Input for redesign component then I use.
BTW, you can change your joystick

I also wish your Newview can support 6DOF now. Now I can use Analog Zoom in Mig Alley by using TrackIr interface. It's excellent! You may map it to axis or move by press button. I think it's not difficult for you since all functions exist in Newview already.

It is only first test for using 6 DOF. This test is passed. But I need real stimulus for support this on my product. All 6DOF can be controlled by NewView and need to design logic for control this by keys, mouse, hat switch etc. It is not simple to make useful interface to control 6DOF by "disabled" controls like joy or keys.

[wdq4587]

Sorry, I have not resources for this rework. I do not familiar with DX Input for redesign component then I use.BTW, you can change your joystick

That really let me confuse. Does this DXInout component only support read axis from 0-5 (or 1-6)? it can not use 0-7? And what's this component name? All other programs include JoyCtrl can read that axis of my X36.

And have you try that joystickmm (Controller Peeker)? Please tell me the axis names of your X52.

You may also use Poswdm Utility to check the axis name, it's come from microsoft. (Don't see the name in first interface,it's wrong,click on button)
http://www.wingmanteam.com/latest_software/gadgets.htm

BTW, you can change your joystick

I don't want change it. Since I use Wingman Force in my right hand. I don't care left hand controller is old or not. And if you want support 6DOF, there will be more people need more axis.

It is only first test for using 6 DOF. This test is passed. But I need real stimulus for support this on my product. All 6DOF can be controlled by NewView and need to design logic for control this by keys, mouse, hat switch etc. It is not simple to make useful interface to control 6DOF by "disabled" controls like joy or keys.

I think you have all design logic needed for 6DOF. For analog axis, just map, or better use curve. For button or hat or keyboard, just use a simplified Newview hat logic as a rought start is enough (or for XYZ even simple, 2 key for 1 axis push for move, use constant speed seted by user, 1 key return center). Use a new tab for 6DOF.

Except analog zoom, first what I want is move head to left or right to see more. For advanced design, you may set XYZ for each UView, you may even let the head offset to left or right according current Newview hat move (no hat click). And I even want reduce view rotate of IL2 (and other sim) when I look high. It really annoying. But I will not ask you for that before I can move head in cockpit a little.

[Hruks]

That really let me confuse. Does this DXInout component only support read axis from 0-5 (or 1-6)? it can not use 0-7? And what's this component name? All other programs include JoyCtrl can read that axis of my X36.

Do you have time for investigate? As I say before - I use DXDelphi component. You can simple find this in the inet.

And have you try that joystickmm (Controller Peeker)? Please tell me the axis names of your X52.

You may also use Poswdm Utility to check the axis name, it's come from microsoft. (Don't see the name in first interface,it's wrong,click on button)
http://www.wingmanteam.com/latest_software/gadgets.htm

Is it important? You can adress this question to any other person who have same joy. It is not interested for me to know name of each axis of my joy.

I don't want change it. Since I use Wingman Force in my right hand. I don't care left hand controller is old or not. And if you want support 6DOF, there will be more people need more axis.

I mean change to X52 for example

I think you have all design logic needed for 6DOF. For analog axis, just map, or better use curve. For button or hat or keyboard, just use a simplified Newview hat logic as a rought start is enough (or for XYZ even simple, 2 key for 1 axis push for move, use constant speed seted by user, 1 key return center). Use a new tab for 6DOF.

Except analog zoom, first what I want is move head to left or right to see more. For advanced design, you may set XYZ for each UView, you may even let the head offset to left or right according current Newview hat move (no hat click). And I even want reduce view rotate of IL2 (and other sim) when I look high. It really annoying. But I will not ask you for that before I can move head in cockpit a little.

I do not think so. I do not ready to support all of this axis and make mapping logic. For example: Should UView use all of 6DOF or only combination 2 to 6 DOF? How map hat switch and Gear mode with 2 DOF to all 6 DOF? And many other questions I have. I wait before this 6 DOF will be supported on good game like LO:Alligator and BOB.

[wdq4587]

Do you have time for investigate? As I say before - I use DXDelphi component. You can simple find this in the inet.

Yes. Since I am also a programmer. I have interesting to debug.

I have google the "DXDelphi", only got 6 pages and 5 are non-English pages, from the only English page I have downloaded one. All files within zip date before 19970209, I guess that not the one you used

Is it important? You can adress this question to any other person who have same joy. It is not interested for me to know name of each axis of my joy.

Yes. If your X52 axis have same program ID as X36. That will mean my suspecision is wrong. There are other problem. Otherwise, that mean why Newview can not read my X36 Slider 1 axis is only because it did not use right ID to read it.

I have asked, but didnot got answer from other people have X52 or X45

I mean change to X52 for example

X52 is still expansive. If I want to change, I will buy a rudder pedal first.

I do not think so. I do not ready to support all of this axis and make mapping logic. For example: Should UView use all of 6DOF or only combination 2 to 6 DOF? How map hat switch and Gear mode with 2 DOF to all 6 DOF? And many other questions I have. I wait before this 6 DOF will be supported on good game like LO:Alligator and BOB.

I will not ask any more. But I can not understand what you thinking. From my aspect, 6DOF is just 6 axis. And you alreay have 3 axis. If you want support it, only a little step for you. If you want a perfect solution, there are still a long long way to go. To me and many other people, even define 2 or 1 hot keys can let our head lean to a fixed left and right position will also be exciting.

[andreaogeno]

Yeah!
Right Hruks
Today, 6dof is not supported yet by FB, Maybe we will need 6dof in december!

[Hruks]

Yeah!
Right Hruks
Today, 6dof is not supported yet by FB, Maybe we will need 6dof in december!

I think we can return to this discussion in the future.

[wdq4587]

To Hruks

I have downloaded some files from:
http://www.siamtip.com/index.php?nam...howpage&pid=11
But it seems all DirectInput API wrap, so I guess that's also not the one you used. Please tell me URL and the component version you used.


Let me say something, if you like hear.

>>Should UView use all of 6DOF or only combination 2 to 6 DOF?

If user actived 6DOF, alway 6DOF.
There are other way is may be you can allow user enter a empty value (not zero) for any of axis, this axis will not change from last position while active UView.

>>How map hat switch and Gear mode with 2 DOF to all 6 DOF?

There are simple way or complex way, like in some game, user can use Ctrl+Up/Down, Ctrl+Left/Right,Insert/Delete to move head. That mean XYZ offsets are independent and have no relation with view direction change, that may be not good in combat sim for move too slowly, but still better than none. That just what I asked in post before. That's also why I think implement 6DOF in Newview is not difficult.

A better way for combat sim, for example predefine a curve for head move while hat move, I mean if I look right, my head also lean right, but I need look high, so it can not be a curve line, should be a curve surface. Need some key point to define the surface (each point have six values). If someone want a 3D editor for edit such surface, it will be more complex. But may be you can let other people make such editor. If you want support look forward with head leaning right (with some hot keys or axis), that will be more and more complex, the movement of head will not be on a surface,but in 3D space, may be use mathematics formula to constrain calculate move speed will be better.

[Dad22]

Народ нужна NV ver33a.Ссылкой поделитесь Пожалуйста.В теме кроме её описания ничего не нашёл.Мож искал криво

[Bond.K]

Народ нужна NV ver33a.Ссылкой поделитесь Пожалуйста.В теме кроме её описания ничего не нашёл.Мож искал криво

http://gadget63.narod.ru/il2_newview33.zip