Pls. help w. Ka-50/52 instruments identification - Weapons Control System (WCS) panel

Hi, we are just wondering what functions are assigned to the following missing buttons in Weapons Control System (WCS) panel since Ka-52 (in EECH) is using the same system as Ka-50 in LockonBlackShark and we are in process of maping these buttons. Perhaps some of you are familar with these systems or have documentation, maybe some lurking ED devs or beta testers might kindly respond to this question by quickly glancing over caption on these buttons. Moreover, this might be of interest to any BS prospective players/pit builders. I hope you keep up the creative spirit of this forum. Thanks!

Overview of switches we know and those we don't:
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tartup1tn5.jpg

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http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?i...lightedlv5.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wrpsu25gx9.jpg


!real world Ka-52 cockpits photos:
(notice the very same WCS panels there)
http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-50sh-m.jpg http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-50mod-m.jpg http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-52_1-m.jpg http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-52_2-m.jpg

These pictures in full here:
http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/index.html

Even some early Ka-50 prototypes have same WCS panels:
http://www.myaviation.net/search/pho...hp?id=00026642 http://www.myaviation.net/search/pho...hp?id=00026641

More Ka-50 only cockpit pics from this thread:
http://forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?...8&postcount=43

Off topic/nice curiosity. K-37 helicopter extraction/ejection system in Hokum:
http://www.ejectionsite.com/k37seat.htm

Nobody will tell you till release. Stay cool. ;)

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Сообщение от Fufunka

Moreover, this might be of interest to any BS prospective players/pit builders. I hope you keep up the creative spirit of this forum. Thanks!

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Are you able to read russian letters? Try to numbering the unknown knobs and buttons for easy identification, if not.

I'm building the BS cockpits now and can help you with some of info.

Laivynas> This has nothing to do with game release - the virtual BS cockpit = real Ka-50 cockpit, just compare the pictures I provided.. You sound like a beta tester :@ )


LazyCamel> This is great stuff! Would you pls. answer some of my questions?
I've some very rudimentary russian reading skills but the problem is that numbering of knobs is sometimes only in "military speak" abreviation so its hard to comprehend without BS manual..

1. Do you have the helicopter-cockpit area layout?
Such as basic messurements of the distances seat to HUD, seat to panels, seat to windows/ceiling etc?

2. Do you have the panel layouts? Is there some russian literature with diagrams on Ka-50?
Or do you just go from the pictures be it BS screenshots or real aviation galleries of the Ka-50?

3. What kind of protocol/IO card are you considering for driving the whole cockpit project?
There is already LUA<>opencockpits (SIOC) communication protocol working! You can find it on opencockpits.com forum in the "military sim cockpits" folder. Opencockpits are opensource project so the software and all the pcb board layouts are for free, very cheap assembled/tested kits are available too. What's more important a large community is perfecting the stuff all the time, lots of tutorials for advanced display, knob, warning lights panels etc. Several french guys are building Lockon SU25 pits with opencockpits IO cards (at checksix forum) already..

4. Do you have any information as to whether export views of Shkval TV and ABRIS, preferably over network will be possible in BS at all? This important feature is in MSFS and other sims for years..

And without exportable ABRIS and Shkval TV views to build a pit is in my opinion quite useless. I've posted numerous questions to ED about it ~ dead silence which is not very encouraging.

The HUD and gauges/panel exports are already enabled by LUA and third party vendors (for instance HUD and glass panel gauges from simmeters.com. It is probably also not so difficult to connect LUA to UDPSpeed which is a skinnable glasscockpit frontend for IL2, but the fidelity of UDPspeed gauges is a bit lower than the 3d modeled payware above.

We have connected UDPSpeed to other game, EECH military helicopter sim in particular, you just have to send dynamic data exactly according to DeviceLink parameters, http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/~e9826217/DeviceLink.txt

UDPSpeed & skins download:
http://forum.sukhoi.ru/showthread.php?t=25523&page=4


5. In terms of my innitial WCS panel question, those two big push buttons under master arm is it some jettison system/drop weapon? And the rest of that upper switch row? What is the first switch from left in the bottom row for?

Thank you very much

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Сообщение от Fufunka

I've some very rudimentary russian reading skills but the problem is that numbering of knobs is sometimes only in "military speak" abreviation so its hard to comprehend without BS manual..

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The Q was about possibility of reading the russian letters font, also known as Windows-1251 codepage. Such as switch ("ДЛ-СР-КР").

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1. Do you have the helicopter-cockpit area layout?
Such as basic messurements of the distances seat to HUD, seat to panels, seat to windows/ceiling etc?

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No. I haven't measurement of real cockpit and trying to recover it from some of basic such as known instruments diameters, push-button length and so on.
And adopted due some restriction off instrumentation panels size :-)

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2. Do you have the panel layouts? Is there some russian literature with diagrams on Ka-50?
Or do you just go from the pictures be it BS screenshots or real aviation galleries of the Ka-50?

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Yes, i've some flight instructions with main diagrams under the some sort of NDA.
And using the real photos of Ka-50 cockpit by Andrew Zinchuk from open sources. Couldn't remember URL now.

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3. What kind of protocol/IO card are you considering for driving the whole cockpit project?

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I'll try to make "near-to-real" cockpit with networked LUA interface and double 19" LCD for emulate thel instrument panels. The 12" B&W TV for Shkval. Old low cost PC under the linux will be the heart. Switches/buttons/knobs will be connected thru USB HID controllers, designed by mine.
Original buttons for upper panels was steeled from old and not working ex-USSR phone call redirection panel

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4. Do you have any information as to whether export views of Shkval TV and ABRIS, preferably over network will be possible in BS at all? This important feature is in MSFS and other sims for years..

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The ED team pereodicaly asked by mine for Shkval TV and ABRIS textures export thru LUA, but they have more hot themes for implementations now, i think :-(

Probably ED will try to do a networked "viewpoint" mode for multi-monitoring, but nobody and never promise it loud.

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5. In terms of my innitial WCS panel question, those two big push buttons under master arm is it some jettison system/drop weapon? And the rest of that upper switch row? What is the first switch from left in the bottom row for?

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Lets try. Some letters was russian, and need to set Win-1251 to see it correctly.

Two big buttons under the master arm, marked as "ПУСК-АВАР-СБРОС" is emergency jettison buttons. Right is emergence drop button for all under the wings payloads except "Vikhr" missiles. Left - for continues emergence Vikhr launches. Next switch "ВЗР-НЕВЗР" - armed or disarmed Vikhr warhead when emergency launches it.
Red square marked switch - "Ускор Разгруз" - make fast, continues and full rockets launches. Single pass fire-and-death rain :-)

Leftmost button switch "АВТ-РУЧН" is a automatic(predefined)/manual weapon control mode.

When it set down - automatic mode on. Cannon fires 10 rounds at a row with "low rate". When it up (manual ) - the mode selected by next switches. Rockets mode is simular.

Next switch initially has three positions. "ДЛ-СР-КОР" and set up a burst "long-middle-short". For cannon it is 20-20-10 rounds, for rockets pair-pair-single launch. I.e. side position "middle" is a historical appendix.

next switch - cannon round selector. All right with identification

and rightmost switch is a rate selector, but with fault identification. Up position is a low rate, down is a full rate.

Thank you very much for taking the time to cover all of my questions.

In terms of point #3 you seem to be going down the path of full "glass cockpit" for the instruments. Are you developing some new application for it or is it more like adjustment of existing one be it glasscockpit software for the MSFS, Falcon or UDPSpeed (IL2) where source code or colaboration with their respective authors is possible? I'm asking because this is a major project in itself and perhaps to build real "steam gauges" from RC servos or step motors for individual instruments might be in the end easier then developing this whole software and instrument skins from the scratch..

Afterall, there are in front "only" 14 gauges plus 1x Ekran, Shkval TV & ABRIS & HUD.
From those 14 gauges are only complex the master and secondary altitude direction indicators (ADIs) and the horizontal situation indicator (HSI) which would be hard to model be it by RC servos or in software as glasscockpit:
http://lockon.co.uk/img/products/lar...bd7655872d.jpg

Although even those can be done:
http://www.opencockpits.com/modules....1386&g2_page=3
http://www.opencockpits.com/modules....g2_itemId=3169
http://www.opencockpits.com/modules....2083&g2_page=2

Lets hope that in the end ED will provide some Shkval TV/ABRIS texture exports or cloned view through multin-monitoring..

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Сообщение от Fufunka

Laivynas> This has nothing to do with game release - the virtual BS cockpit = real Ka-50 cockpit, just compare the pictures I provided.. You sound like a beta tester :@ )

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In fact, I'm. :thx:

PS. What need in organizing the controls that won't work? I don't mean anything. I don't mean what I mean at all. :D :thx:

Laivynas> That's a strange sense of humor from you :old:

For one thing, all these switches and buttons have been shown as fully functional in the released videos during combat mission.. So you are either not a beta tester at all or you are just teasing people around :ups:

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ok I wanted to accumulate more info before posting here but some "moderator" immediately deleted my post over the official Lockon/BlackShark forum perhaps for some weird "marketing" reasons uh ah..
Now they locked my 2nd thread on the topic, wtf?

the resurrected thread on Lockon forum:
http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=18066

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edit:

"Lets try. Some letters was russian, and need to set Win-1251 to see it correctly.

Two big buttons under the master arm, marked as "ПУСК-АВАР-СБРОС" is emergency jettison buttons. Right is emergence drop button for all under the wings payloads except "Vikhr" missiles. Left - for continues emergence Vikhr launches. Next switch "ВЗР-НЕВЗР" - armed or disarmed Vikhr warhead when emergency launches it.
Red square marked switch - "Ускор Разгруз" - make fast, continues and full rockets launches. Single pass fire-and-death rain :-)

Leftmost button switch "АВТ-РУЧН" is a automatic(predefined)/manual weapon control mode.

When it set down - automatic mode on. Cannon fires 10 rounds at a row with "low rate". When it up (manual ) - the mode selected by next switches. Rockets mode is simular.

Next switch initially has three positions. "ДЛ-СР-КОР" and set up a burst "long-middle-short". For cannon it is 20-20-10 rounds, for rockets pair-pair-single launch. I.e. side position "middle" is a historical appendix.

next switch - cannon round selector. All right with identification

and rightmost switch is a rate selector, but with fault identification. Up position is a low rate, down is a full rate. "

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thanks to LazyCamel from forum.sukhoi.ru we now have to whole WCS panel info available.
http://forum.sukhoi.ru/showpost.php?...99&postcount=5

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I know that the majority of EECH pit people are on the blue side, nevertheless the red side people might be interested that the Weapons Control System (WCS) panel in Ka-52 (in EECH) is using the same system as Ka-50 in BS so we can get some details on its functions. Buttons and display of this panel could be made in two stages: LPTswitch for buttons and eechcommserver&lt;&gt;opencockpits_SIOC for the green displays:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3...tup1tn5.th.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tartup1tn5.jpg

=

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9...htedlv5.th.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?i...lightedlv5.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3...su25gx9.th.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wrpsu25gx9.jpg


!real world Ka-52 cockpits photos:
(notice the yellow panel in center and 2 MFD off = must be Shkval TV and its contrast, brightness panel
http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-50sh-m.jpg http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-50mod-m.jpg http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-52_1-m.jpg http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/ka-52_2-m.jpg

Full here plus euro and some blue birds:
http://avia.russian.ee/cockpits/index.html

Some early Ka-50 prototype:
http://www.myaviation.net/search/pho...hp?id=00026642 http://www.myaviation.net/search/pho...hp?id=00026641

!k-37 helicopter extraction/ejection system in Hokum:
http://www.ejectionsite.com/k37seat.htm

More Ka-50 only cockpit pics at this thread:
http://forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?...8&postcount=43


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In case you ment there will be no LUA export for Ekran, Shkval TV, ABRIS from the game that would be a serious problem and we all hope this will be implemented afterall, the simpit building community is growing and Lockon should not be behind other sim products which support these features..

Actually there is one small-small thing - NDA.
According to that doc I can't tell You anything about BS. ;) Maybe only general info but nothing more. Sorry, it's not me but the rules.

If you don't believe me go to the http://forum.lockon.ru and look for my contact.
Good luck. :)

That's fine.. no problem, I got the answers regarding WCS before from another member of the forum (LazyCamel).

But please just communicate to the ED team about the more pressing issue being that export of Shkval TV and ABRIS via LUA or by any other means is absolutely crucial and more important for the overall success of the sim in the long run than tweaking some tangential "fancy" issues.. Thanks

:yez: :yez: :flame: :old: :old: :old: :old: :old: :old: :old:

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Сообщение от Fufunka

That's fine.. no problem, I got the answers regarding WCS before from another member of the forum (LazyCamel).

But please just communicate to the ED team about the more pressing issue being that export of Shkval TV and ABRIS via LUA or by any other means is absolutely crucial and more important for the overall success of the sim in the long run than tweaking some tangential "fancy" issues.. Thanks

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